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Talk:!kick
Script work in Personal JS Does this script work in personal JS?—|| Grudgeholderr ||— 06:50, May 23, 2018 (UTC) : Yes. -- Cube-shaped 08:27, May 23, 2018 (UTC) Higher Ups Shouldn't the order of hierarchy be "staff, sysop, threadmoderator, chatmoderator, helper, vstf" instead of "staff, sysop, helper, vstf, threadmoderator, chatmoderator"? That way it makes it consistent with the chat badges. Also Chat Moderators and Discussion Moderators have more local authority in chat than Helpers and VSTF do. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 23:53, December 21, 2018 (UTC) :Does it really matter? --Sharkie 02:04, December 22, 2018 (UTC) ::Well, depending on the community's overall preference, yes. It may cause certain communities to copy the entire script and edit it, only for them not to receive any updates later when changes are made to this script. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 02:40, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :::If you want to want to keep getting updates then don't fork the script? --Sharkie 02:53, December 22, 2018 (UTC) ::::I'm not suggesting a fork. But being able to control which order the "helper, vstf, threadmoderator, chatmoderator" hierarchy goes in would sure be nice. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 03:56, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :::::I don't understand the basis of the proposition. Chat badges have little and less to do with the two hierarchies - "chatadmin" and "chatmoderator". If Chat itself doesn't permit the "chatmoderator" permission to override the chatadmin permission in kicks, then why would a change in this behaviour be useful? :::::Why would a chat mod need to kick a Helper or VSTF member? It seems like this could prevent chat countervandalism or disrupt wikis socially. :::::• speedy • ��︎ • • 09:07, December 22, 2018 (UTC) I'd like to note that the VSTF has intervened globally on Chat in the past. That's a use case I'd like to support, even if they need to prevent thread or chat mods from spamming. • speedy • ��︎ • • 09:29, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :It's split up into three groups by default. 1) Users with Chat Moderator rights (Chat Mods, Discussion Mods, VSTF, and Helpers) 2) Users with Chat Moderator and Chat Admin rights (Admins) 3) Users with Chat Moderator and Chat Staff rights (Staff) :The first group can kick the second group, but they can't ban them. They can also ban other members of the first group. The second group can kick and ban the first group and other members of the second group. They can also ban the third group, but not kick. The third group cannot be kicked by the first or second group. But they can be banned by the second group. :I'm not saying that I'm opposed to the idea of VSTF and Helpers needing to kick or ban Chat Mods or Discussion Mods for whatever reason. But I would prefer it if they were equal in chat. Since they all have the same status in chat. But then I'm not sure whether it would be possible to make it so the JavaScript recognises those four groups as being equal in hierarchy. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 10:12, December 22, 2018 (UTC) ::Or we could just leave it as is, because there's no issue and no real reason to change it, as MACH-59330 pointed out. --Sharkie 10:14, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :::We could do that, but I still want to know whether it would be possible. I mean, it would be good if there could be a way to prevent Admins from being kicked by lower tiered users. But still allow the lower tiered chat moderator groups to kick one another. :::Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention that there's still the issue with some communities where Discussion Moderator rights have been separated from Chat Moderator rights. With this script, I feel that it may prevent Chat Moderators from kicking Discussion Moderators on communities where Discussion Moderators don't have Chat Moderator rights. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 10:17, December 22, 2018 (UTC) ::::Thanks for the clarification on chatstaff & the overall hierarchy. I feel that emulating behaviour in core is better than making this hierarchy customisable. The script seems to account for hierarchy well enough atm, and a pivot away from that still doesn't seem beneficial. ::::Putting it this way.. Compared to supporting the off-chance that Discussions mods don't have mod rights, I feel preventing mods from !kicking the VSTF is more important. ::::The former should really be a future feature. • speedy • ��︎ • • 10:34, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :::::What about the communities that would rather have the lower tiered chat moderator groups still being able to kick one another, but still prevent any of the lower tiered chat moderator groups from being able to kick administrators? ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 10:38, December 22, 2018 (UTC) ::::::If a wiki has social issues between the lower tiered moderation groups, a social solution is far more appropriate than a technical one. Discussions, warnings, demotions etc :) ::::::If I recall correctly, there is a conditional to support kicking people who are higher up in that hierarchy. But of course, this assumes you want mods to be able to kick anyone. ::::::• speedy • ��︎ • • 10:45, December 22, 2018 (UTC) Anyone except Administrators and Staff. Because those groups have chatadmin and chatstaff respectively. Since Staff can't be kicked anyway, that problem is automatically resolved. But the issue remains that Administrators can still be kicked without the hierarchy. But with the hierarchy in place, it stops the lower tiered chat moderator groups from being equal to each other. And with that, it still doesn't address those concerns that I have brought up. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 11:03, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :I have been thinking that perhaps it would be more efficient to order the hierarchy based on the permissions that a user has (e.g. chatstaff/chatadmin/chatmoderator) rather than what user-groups a user is in. ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 12:18, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :: Considering the general uselessness of the pseudo-hierarchy the script places as a result of social issues on other communities, I have made it configurable now. Set window.KickHierarchy in your JS to an array of user groups to set the pseudo-hierarchy that you want your community to be using. -- Cube-shaped 13:48, December 22, 2018 (UTC) :::Thanks a lot. Now those communities that want to control the hierarchy order can do just that. While Helpers and VSTF do need to be placed above Discussion Mods and Chat Mods on some communities, there are other communities where they don't really hold much authority in chat. And I have always felt that those communities should be respected for the way they function. I would still have preferred to make the hierarchy between Chat Mods, Discussion Mods, VSTF, and Helpers equal. But what am I gonna do? ― C.Syde (talk | contribs) 00:47, December 23, 2018 (UTC)